More chick stuff
Writing about the subject of Cornish X meat chickens has been one of those things that brings (besides all the porn spam my blog is now getting just from mentioning the word “chick”) quite a bit of controversy. Besides being corrected about the breeding, I have been getting private emails complaining about my complaining. I don’t have my email on my blog just because I don’t want a bunch of extra email, but if I leave a comment on someone’s blog, they have my email. So bloggers who I have read or read currently, who also complain from time to time about various subjects, as we all do, no matter how pristine we believe we are in our cyber lives, feel fit to send me a private email to tell me to knock it off and quit “picking” on people who have dead chickens – to put it mildly. Usually, if I read someone’s latest rant about (you name it) and I don’t agree, I don’t feel the need to comment and push my views. If I want to rant away on my personal blog, I suppose I am going to offend someone, sometime. And you’re free to comment if you feel like it, or not.
I appreciate all the kind, and informative comments I received this week, the emails not so much. I am not advocating that anyone keep Cornish X chickens and keep them for breeders. The breeders themselves have to be on a very restricted feed program so they don’t grow too large to breed, proving that they too have been bred to gain size very fast, not that they are just breeds that have been bred once and the resulting cross is a modern day Cornish chicken.
But I still am sticking to my guns, that these chickens have a place in modern day husbandry. However, they are not easy to raise, or for beginners. Just like I don’t really recommend people get a dairy cow, as opposed to a beef cow, unless they are really committed. I have both, and both require different management, beef are easy compared to dairy, many aspects are the same, but just as many are different.
Chris left a great comment about her experience with Le Poulet, a slower, growing meat chicken, which is part of the Label Rouge meat program. She provides her cost estimate, which is lower than mine per pound, so she must be doing something right.
One thing I disagree with though however, is the animal welfare issue, yes these birds can be mistreated in an industrial setting and on small holdings too, but with a little extra care and attention on the part of the caretakers can live a good life. Holstein cows bear some of the same bias towards them also because they have been bred to produce large quantities of milk. It isn’t the cow or the breeds fault, and on a small (100 head give or take) dairy farm they can receive individual attention and lead good lives. So I am still saying it is management, and when I see people reporting a 30% mortality with their chickens, something isn’t right. To give benefit of the doubt, the hatchery could be blamed, I guess, but it is my understanding that the eggs for Cornish X come from just a handful of breeders and are distributed across the country. So if it isn’t the hatchery, the next place to look is the new home for the chicks. It could be feed, brooder configuration, temperature (too high or too low), or ???? For our personal template we figure the chick will do OK for the first 72 hours, due to yolk ingestion and during that time they should be getting stronger not weaker. For deaths after that I will take the blame. I see it as a challenge to do a good job – my first knitting project in 4-H was a stupid looking garter stitch hat, but it was still a challenge for an 8 year old. By the time I was done with 4-H knitting I was designing & drafting my own Aran and Fair Isle patterns. I am sure the mental image of a not too pretty meat chicken is a far cry from Fisherman’s sweater worked in beautiful wool, but to me they both represent a job well done. In all our years of raising these birds, we have not seen many leg problems, heart trouble or ascites. But we have seen those things, but never more than one bird per season, hardly cause for alarm. Maybe we have just been lucky, or what I would like to think that after raising 1000′s of birds we can take some credit for providing a good, although short life for these birds. I’m thinking if I was a chicken, maybe getting to live 16 weeks is kind of a short life too… .
So I will have to leave it at that – I am happy to raise Cornish as long as I can afford to – what other people raise is their concern.
My chick stats so far: I ordered 75 Cornish, and 25 Black Sex-Links. I received 76 CX and 25 BSL pullets. One Cornish chick was weak in the box, dead in a few hours, and one had a crooked neck. I put the crooked neck chick out of it’s misery, leaving me with 74 Cornish. One BSL pullet arrived from the hatchery, with her feathers entirely scratched off her back, she looked rough, I gave her one pill of Arnica for pain, and she now is growing her feathers and starting to pick up.
Today is day 9, and they have been going without lights during the day since day 5. Despite rainy, snowy days, with just a little sun break here and there, the greenhouse has been warm enough for them until the sun sinks below the treeline.
As for feed, the feed is beautiful, but, as I suspected, the sunflower seeds and oats are being left by the chicks. To give the feed a boost I have been top-dressing the feed with hard boiled eggs. My hens are getting the extra seeds that the chicks are not eating, so while not a total waste, I would still prefer to have them cleaning up all the feed. It’s still a long way to the freezer… .
Food Renegade
Simple, Green, Frugal Co-op
Now you are probably going to hate this, especially coming from someone who is only thinking about raising chickens (and someone who looks up to you for advices otherwise), but I can’t help but feel that giving chickens hard boiled eggs is just wrong! I’ve read of ways to raise your own soldier fly larvae, or raising house fly larvae on fruit, etc., for a protein source. But it just seems wrong to feed chickens eggshells or hard boiled eggs. Again, I realize I probably have no grounds to disagree, since I haven’t raised my own, but what is your rationale for doing this?
Paula, nah, it’s OK it doesn’t bother me that you feel that way, chickens do eat other chickens after all…but it is fairly common among small poultry producers to use extra eggs for protein source. And here is one that will boggle your mind – I feed eggs shells to my hens to supplement their calcium. Our turkeys received the same treatment, because they need extra protein at the start. It is a good source of protein for the early days that I actually have had in my hands and know what it contains.
Do you think it is wrong since eggs could have been potentially a chicken someday or just that you have heard chickens will become egg eaters or shell breakers if they eat their own shells? If you get chickens in the future, be prepared that if you have any stressors (which are not always apparent to the human) that you may have a hen that eats her own eggs or her coop mates eggs. And for the record feeding egg shells to a hen will not make her an egg eater, no more than giving my dog a beef bone will make him go out and help himself in the pasture. But this will have to be my regular disclaimer – now there is no hard and fast rule to follow anything I say, it is merely a suggestion. Andy Lee (Chicken Tractor fame) feeds raw, frozen eggs to his birds, feeling it is too much work to boil them, and that raw is better. I like to read those articles too about raising house flies, worms etc, but all those things take time and some people have more time than I do, and when reality kicks in, I need to use up my surpluses, be it eggs, milk, etc in the most prudent way for me.
no- it’s the whole cannibalism thing that turns me off. I know they do it, both eat eggs and each other occasionally, but I just figure why encourage it?
however, once I lose a chick to insufficient protein in her diet, or start going out of my mind with what to do with all those eggs, I may resort to feeding them to the chickens. I think it makes more sense to cook them first like you do, though.
I guess what I’m saying is that it’s easy to be all high and mighty until the shoe is on your foot and you have to deal with it. If I ever feed eggs to chickens, I will humbly let you know.
Chickens do not associate hard boiled eggs with the raw ones that they will occasianally (or more often) eat in the coop.
)
There are times, that a hard boiled or scrambled egg is all that stands between life or death for a chick.
Egg yolks are absorbed in the gut, regardless if its an anmimal or human gut, so the digestive system is not taxed in the process
Paula Runyan
Ptown Paula, deal! The best rule to follow with anything is to not do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. There are lots of livestock practices that make people uncomfortable. Cutting bulls makes my hubby a little nervous
and seeing people use cattle prods makes me uncomfortable. And hopefully you will never have to feed eggs if you don’t want to – for me it is just insurance, I have a considerable amount of $ tied up in these chicks, and trusting the feed mix just doesn’t do it for me.
Hey, I’ve been following along with your Cornish Cross posts and thought I’d add my two cents. Three years ago we wanted to raise our own meat birds but we had heard the horror stories about Cornish Cross so we decided to raise heritage Cornish. Well after several months the birds were still sooo small, smaller than our Sexlinked layers, although I’ll admit their carcass was very solid and meaty. Last summer we bought thirty cornish cross chicks and fed them our own whole grain chicken feed mix. We only lost one that was an odd runt that had something wrong with him. We processed them around fourteen weeks if I remember correctly and had five to nine pound dressed chickens. We had split the order with friends who fed their birds commercial chicken feed and had processed their birds three weeks earlier and were happy to have a smaller finished product. Our birds grew slower which may have cut down on leg problems. This year we are getting thirty in June but picked up six when we were buying layers in late March. We thought we’d try feeding them an Organic chicken starter/grower feed and see how they do. Well, they are growing faster and are already having problems moving around and we had one die. So we’ve started cutting their processed feed with our own all purpose whole grains to try and slow their growth down.
So basically in a long winded fashion I’m saying that what you feed and feeding practices make a big difference, as does overall housing and such. I am going to try and keep better track of how much feed goes into our next batch of Cornish as they’ll be housed separate of other breeds. Last summer I figured that without counting housing, supplies or care, just initial chick purchase and feed that we were around two fifty a pound which is what organic chicken pieces sell for here… I’m hoping to do better than that this year. As always, love your blog!! Thanks
I’m sorry about all those emails. Not that it helps for me to say so! Having been something of an oddball all my life, I can empathize. It’s too bad we all can’t just respect one another’s opinions and leave it at that.
For what it is worth…..
I enjoy reading your blog and I understand, when I read anyones blog, that it is their personal opinions and educating and I wouldn’t ever have the intention to go in and comment to argue with their perspective! How ludacris!!
I do agree with you Nita that it’s all about management in so many ways.
My first batch of Cornish really didn’t do well and it was hard because I was a beginner. I went with a slow-growing Cornish the next year from Privett Hatchery in NM and they were wonderful; I didn’t lose any and ended up keeping one because my daughter protested so much that I was going to kill her “friend.” Well, Chicken Patty has turned out to be a wonderful mama and great bird! She raised 6 foster chicks from my 2nd batch of slow-growers; we now keep three of her “daughters” and one of her “sons.” The son, The Colonel, died suddenly: I suspect heart failure although he wasn’t overweight or anything. But the four hens are quite happy.
Once I figured out how much easier it was to have Mama raise the babies, that’s the way I am going from now on. So we won’t have 35 big meat-bird chickens in the freezer come fall; we might have 15 skinny mixed-breed ones. That’s okay! But then again, chickens aren’t part of our farm livelihood; they’re just part of our farm life.
So I say go ahead and rant away! I wish there were an easier, fault-free chicken out there but there’s not.
I agree that it is your personal blog and you should be able to comment, complain, instruct or do whatever you darn well want to. And no one should feel they have the ‘right’ to email you personally to take you to task. I have a neighbor who milks about 60 cows – mostly Holsteins. He doesn’t go as far as naming them, but he is watchful and takes good care of them. He needs the milk poundage to almost break even, although I think he would like Ayrshires instead. But with any animal – livestock or companion – it’s mostly in the care YOU give them. People have got to quit blaming everyone else for what they do wrong. Okay – I don’t want to rant. Your blog entries are so well-written, thoughtful and helpful that I cringe at the thought you might quit writing. Please don’t!!!
I know nothing about chickens, but I know something about learning not to stick my nose in other people’s business
Words rarely change someone else’s opinion- in fact, the greatest changes I’ve ever made in people’s lives have been through example, and they only told me after the fact!
I’m glad you’re here talking about chickens that no one else is talking about. Every other chicken source I’ve read only talked about heritage breeds, egg layers…it’s nice to have a different opinion! In the end, we all make our own choices- I’m glad you’re comfortable (and competent
with yours!
Carry on Nita! I love your blog rants and all!
Matron,
I know it doesn’t help much, but, “Some days you eat the bear, some days the bears eat you.”
Thanks for your writing.
Bravo! I like your comments regarding the Cornish X. I have dealt with similar “information” being thrown at me, on various subjects, usually with good intention.
Bottom line: The tomatoes, the lettuce, the beans even in your garden…the guernsey, the house plant, your every charge as a farmer would not exist without human breeding intervention and therefore require a level of care greater than they would receive in nature. It is our duty to provide the correct level of care or get out of the business. Wherever we fail with the many hybrid or highly bred creatures under our care, it is our fault.
It is not difficult to learn the requirements for these creatures, but each of us have to decide what we are willing to give. There are some plants & animals I won’t mess with- too much work. I don’t blame the plants & animals, though. It is my choice.
Anyway, I know you don’t need my approval! Still, you have it.
Tabitha
I was thinking, as I was washing dishes late last night, that I didn’t fully explain my comment about this being an “animal welfare” issue. What I was trying to say (badly!), is that some people have *moral* qualms about raising such a problematic animal, whose problems seem to have been bred into them by humans, for the benefit of humans. Now, I know there are people who have moral qualms about eating animals, period. The vegetarians and vegans I keep in my circle of friends are those who understand that *their* sense of morality is theirs. Same is true for my friends who practice all manner of religious faiths. We all have our stance on moral issues and I’m glad we live in a place where we aren’t all expected, by most people anyway, to agree on them all. Getting all out of joint with people out about their choices, when you don’t agree with them, is just rude, whether it’s chicken breeds, chicken eating, or whether or not there is a supreme being.
While I am happy with our Le Poulets and don’t plan to raise Cornish Cross, I have really appreciated the many comments here from people who have raised them so successfully–it’s heartening and eye-opening.
I applaud your practices with the meat birds!
We did commercial feed and free ranging last year, with the only mortalities being from two chicks breaking their necks on the silly feeders we used at the beginning.
Lots of probiotics from Kombucha and Kefir were given as well.
This year, they will get only whole grain and fishmeal for feed, and will be tractored/pastured (new neighbors have a pitbull they refuse to chain) and will be given liberal probiotics again.
They will also be starting out life under broody Cochin hens!
If I felt it was needed to treat and feed them like the commercial growers, then I would not even bother raising them!
Blessings,
Paula Runyan
Sorry that you got an ear full (or should I say in-box full) of snotty retorts. *sigh* It’s your blog to do and say what you like. While I think contrast is a great thing, blasting someone is not. ROCK on, Nita!
Um, I hope it’s okay that I covet your chickens. Lucky little chicks, they are, to get hard boiled eggs for breakfast!
I can curb my stalking of the photos and videos, but I can’t stop loving them. Just yesterday, as I showed my youngest daughter the photo of them eating out of your hand, she asked me that if I ever did get some chicks, would I be able to eat them because I’m so crazy about them. Hmm, good question. No doubt it would be hard at first to eat the meat birds, but there’d be no hesitation to devour the eggs left by the layers. In fact, hard boiled eggs sound really good right now! 
Oh for goodness sake! One of the downsides of having a well-read blog, I suppose. Your opinion is your opinion, nothing more & nothing less! Why anyone should go to the trouble of sending an email to argue with you is beyond me.
I live in the suburbs & have a little motley assortment of hens in my backyard. I read your blog because it is fascinating & your write with intelligence & a knowledgeable opinion. Please don’t let the pigheaded folks get to you!
I don’t know anything about raising meat chickens, but my in-laaws just started raising Cornish Rocks. Is that the same as yours?
As someone who dealt with her own internet drama a few weeks ago, the advice I’ll give you is that it was very theraputic to get offline for a few days and come back refreshed and ready to move on!
I for one, didn’t have a problem with your Cornish hen comments — I had a friend who was like OMG DON’T BUY THOSE EVAR!!!1!!1!!one! and I keep meaning to send him your comments…
I like seeing the other side, and seeing well-thought out comments about it. The fact that people are like “they can’t live past x days” and you’re like “well, then how do they breed?!” makes complete and utter sense. I enjoyed it, although it must have been hell for you! Break out the asbestos suits!
I must say, it seems like a lot of people would make any excuse for not successfully raising chickens rather than accepting responsibility. I use every animal death as a lesson to improve my management practices. I agonize and analyze how I could have possibly done something different to prevent it. Many times, the answer is nothing short of being psychic could have change things, but when there is something I can change to improve my practices, I don’t blame the animal for dying.
By the way, I have used boiled eggs for weak chickens. I’ve also had to feed them to baby peafowl because they are not the smarted bird in the barnyard and sometimes need it to encourage their eating.
Well done Nita! as always! Rant on as you will my friend. I think ranting is helpful….at least it gets it off your chest. I just kinda chuckled as I read all of it….because in some small way I “know” you and I know that you have nothing but good intentions. You’ve never steered me wrong so far! I’ve always appreciated ALL of your advise.
As a new “farmer” we bought the Freedom Rangers to raise Label Rouge just because we read about it in Acres USA a year ago. We’ve been buying Cornish X for a while at $3.79/lb and just wanted to have a go at it. To see if they really are more tender and delicious…the verdict is still out.
So, here I am with 50 chicks that are 4 wks old. I’ve already had my fill of raising meat birds! I’m not thrilled that I have at least another 2 months to go and frankly would give anything to think I was half done with this labor intensive job. Maybe I’m feeling so overwhelmed because there are 50! And maybe it’s because I’ve been having my learning curve with new goats and babies and it’s garden time and and and…..no matter. The next batch (unless of course these taste so incredible that I don’t turn back) will be Cornish X.
Thanks for the hard boiled egg tip. I think I’ll be adding them in for protein this week. They are getting out on pasture but could probably stand a bit more protein.
Great post! We always used to feed our chicks with hard boiled eggs, worked great. I admire you for your stand because you do what you believe in and obviously you speak from experience. Keep it up.
Post on! I only accept criticism from real farmers. The rest is just noise.
Awww! Little chicks are always so cute!!
Happy mother’s day Nita
Hope you have a great day!!
I’ve raised both Cornish X and heirloom breeds, and I enjoyed all of it. Chickens are like little dinosaurs, and they’re great to have around. Different birds for different needs. If you’re raising meat birds on purchased organic feed, it sure makes sense to raise a bird with a good feed to weight gain ratio. They do make a nice, plump roast with nice big breasts–a great bird to roast. I’m trying some other breeds this year, just because I get enough white in Wisconsin over the winter, and am hungry for a little color! I just found your blog, and can’t wait to read more. Thanks!
Wow, it is amazing how strongly everyone feels about chickens! Not to change the subject, but I have a question about sheep…we just got two katahdin lambs…yippee! What do you do with your sheep at night? Do you put them in somewhere or do they stay out in the electric woven wire? Have you ever had anything try to get them while they’ve been been in the electric fence? Thanks in advance for your input, hope you have a great Mother’s Day!
Tami, ours stay out pretty much all year, and the Electronet has kept them safe here…but we did lose some previously to cougars when they were pastured, (in their electric net) in remote pastures near the timber, since we have kept them closer we haven’t had any problems.
Your first sentence is an understatement – thank heavens I didn’t suggest homeschooling the chicks…
Happy Mother’s Day to you too!
Thanks, we’ll be sure to keep them close. Unfortunately, we just realized that our biggest predator is maybe going to be our milk cow, she much have some history with white dogs or coyotes or something…she tries to steamroll them when she sees them…eek. So much for multi-species grazing. Cornish X, homeschooling and no boxed cereal?! You’re livin on the edge:)
Tami, too funny, about your cow – when we first got sheep, we put their brand new electric fence in a small pasture near the cattle. The cows took one look at them and headed for the woods, which was quite hilarious in itself, but the next morning they were still in the woods peering out, afraid to pass by those scary woolies! They finally got brave enough, but I thought the cows would keep the sheep safe their first night – didn’t know they were such chickens. The sheep came from a farm that had cows so the didn’t even notice. I’ll have to tell them about the big mean Jerseys in CO
Speaking of living on the edge – the resident Mother’s Day shoppers had to break down and buy me the Lady Gaga CD I wanted…so much for a predictable taste in music…when they go to guitar class all heck breaks loose around here. Might be Led Zeppelin, Johnny Cash, or now Lady G! I’ve noticed the dogs don’t care what I listen too
There is much truth in your writings and in the comments. Farmers take care of their crops and their livestock or they don’t make a profit and they don’t continue in business. Bottom Line! Commerical poultry farmers must take care of their birds (24/7) or they don’t have anything to sell and therefore no cash for their operation expenses. They also sometimes have to take care of one that has a health issue, just like you did with the neck issue. They should not have to suffer before dying a slow death. It is a simple issue, either the farmer takes care of his livestock or he is off the farm and working in town!
All of this bad publicity by HSUS is going to end with all our food being imported from China. Does anyone really want that. Farms take multi-million dollar investments, these are not mom and pop operations any more.
I enjoy your blog, keep it coming. Linda
Looks like we may end up with one of Trace’s future relatives, thanks to your post with the website for RockingRMB Aussies. They have 2 males left for sale, but we are looking for a female so we’ll wait until they have another litter this time next year. They will be breeding Jessie (a pup out of their current female and stud dog ~ a full sibling to the pups on their website.) A long time to wait, but we want to make the right choice. Both our Aussies have been rescues, so this will be my first non-rescue, but my hope is the future pup will be able to work with our sheep a bit (instead of lounging on the recliner like Riley does).
Thanks for the tip about the Aussies.
Marianne
Marianne, Jessie is Trace’s sister from his litter I believe. We found them through the Capital Press, after being frustrated with what was available around PDX . We had been heartsick our old breeders had went to mini’s, which we weren’t interested in at all. We didn’t know until several months after we brought Trace home that he was actually related to our best Belle dog that had just passed away. She was sooo smart, (being a girl helps, I think…sorry guys) Trace is smart but not quite there yet. We don’t need ours for herding, more companion/guard type jobs, but they do need to be stock savvy.
I’m kinda partial to #9
I appreciate your wisdom shared with us, obvi0usly gained through years of hands on practice-we are in no shape to raise our own chickens yet, but reading info from all sources is certainly preparing us for the eventuality.